Hybrid Challenger. Sure, why not?

"Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom" (will-alib) 01/21/2019 at 16:16 • Filed to: None

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I could see a 400hp 5.7 bolted up to an electric motor to boost hp/ trq on demand. Take about 400-500 lb out of that pig and it could be fun.

WilliamsSW > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 01/21/2019 at 16:29

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Lol it will add 700 pounds of batteries

ranwhenparked > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 01/21/2019 at 16:30

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They’ve got to be very careful about what they do to the rest of the car.

Ultimately, they’ve got an 11 year old design that’s still setting new sales records and is wiping the floor with its newest and most modern competitor. The thing right now is a total cash cow, the profit margin has to be unreal, and its quite obvious that people are choosing it based on what it offers that the Camaro and Mustang don’t. FCA has to walk a fine line, working in necessary modernization but not dropping the attributes that are pulling in customers.

There’s certainly room for a hybrid, especially a mild hybrid power assist, but if they start talking about dropping down to 4 seats or ditching the stuck in the ‘70s exterior styling, customers are going to walk. I’d even question if moving to a turbo 4-cylinder as the base engine is a bad idea, since Challenger sales seem to have started trending upward at about the same time Ford and Chevy moved to that. 

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > ranwhenparked 01/21/2019 at 16:34

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Also, my buddy at work drives one for one specific combination that they offer on it- AWD. He came from a small jeep crossover, wanted one more fun “cool” car before he settles down gets married and has kids. We also live in Michigan and a daily driver in RWD for a non-enthusiast is a hassle not challenge to be conquered. So he leased a V6 AWD Challenger and he loves it. Camaros and Mustangs don’t come in AWD. Big advantage to FCA on that one.

LongbowMkII > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 01/21/2019 at 16:37

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Dollars to donuts it’d be similar to the 3.6 hybr id in the truck

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 01/21/2019 at 16:49

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Pretty sure adding in Hybrid parts will add weight, not remove it.....

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > WilliamsSW 01/21/2019 at 16:57

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Hybrid, not pure electric.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 01/21/2019 at 17:01

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Yeah, but there’s weight in that LX platform that can come out to offset it. Losing 400 or more pounds would mean going to a new platform entirely which might not happen now (sounds that way, anyhow).

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 01/21/2019 at 17:03

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Camaros and Mustangs also have no rear seat room; not a big deal if your passengers are small children or double-a mp utees.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 01/21/2019 at 17:03

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Honestly, I’m over people calling the Challenger “fat”. It’s a great driving/comfortable Muscle car, nothing more, nothing less.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > ranwhenparked 01/21/2019 at 17:14

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For the reasons you said, I’d think a mild hybrid would have to be the solution. T he 5.7 eTorque system in the hybrid Ram sounds promising but they might have to rework it to fit under the Challenger’s hood. (electric motor mtd on top of the engine; the V6 eTorque’s motor is mtd on the front of the engine)

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 01/21/2019 at 17:17

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Yep , but it’s always being compared to the Mustaro which is ridiculous. At 4,400lb the Challenger Hellcat is pretty damn porky and could stand some Jenny Craig attention.

SPAMBot - Horse Doctor > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 01/21/2019 at 17:21

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I just assumed they would drop this motor in it since they already have it . They can probably just add a giant hood scoop to make room. That is kind of the style of the car anyway.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 01/21/2019 at 17:24

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It’s a car you have to drive though. It really doesn’t show its weight. The HC is a riot to throw around corners and holds the road far better than a car it’s weight/power has any right to. I think a lot of the weight hate comes from people who have either:

1. Never actually driven one.

2. Are expecting sports car handling out of a muscle car.

The Mustang/Camaro have moved more towards “sports cars”, which I think is a lot of what is driving Challenger sales up, it’s more luxury oriented than it’s “competition”. People want something fun+comfortable, the Challenger serves up both in large amounts, whereas the competition is severely lacking on the comfort side of things.

At this point I think an attempt to shave weight will just result in a cheap feeling car and end up killing the Challenger.

For Sweden > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 01/21/2019 at 17:32

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This should work if the next Callenger uses the Ghibli platform

WilliamsSW > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 01/21/2019 at 17:33

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Still requires electrical storage and motor. So maybe just under 5000 lb

vondon302 > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 01/21/2019 at 18:01

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Straight six turbo hybrid Challenger would be fun. Add in AWD and lighter and I'd be very interested.

PS9 > ranwhenparked 01/21/2019 at 18:20

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I’m not so sure about ‘sales records’ since according to this , the mustang is still the best selling muscle car in the US for the second year in a row. Here’s something else that is pretty apparent; the whole sports car segment is taking a beating, with the growers only making single digit headway, and the shrinkers taking big year over year haircuts. That 7.5% decline for the mustang is pretty telling as to why ford thinks is should stop making cars in the US. If you’re approaching 10% decline in the boom times, the bust times are going to be a gut punch. Everyone is trying to get out ahead of that before it hits.

The six cylinder muscle car is probably dead after 2020. Folks who would walk away from a 4 cylinder challenger have no where to walk to, given that the only six cylinder sporty cars left after that are going to be asking for waaaaaay more than a base turbo challenger. 

ranwhenparked > PS9 01/21/2019 at 18:42

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Sales records in comparison to itself. 2018 was the Challenger’s single best year ever, 66,796 - a 3.4% increase over 2017 in a segment that was otherwise down. And 2017 was a slight bump over ‘16. In fact, the Challenger has had 4 years in a row with sales over 60,000 units, and is about twice as popular now as it was 8 years ago.

The Mustang beat it by 9,000 units, but it is 7 years (one full product cycle) newer and was was down 7.4%.

Make no mistake, Fiat Chrysler has stumbled blindly into some kind of hit with a very old design on an even older platform that they’ve spent hardly anything on it years.

FCA just needs to do very careful research to make sure they accurately identify whatever attributes are causing this, and leave them alone while modernizing everything else.

This is not like a pickup truck that a contractor needs for work or a minivan that a big family needs to get around, none of these cars are purchased for essential utility. If buyers don’t like what they see, not buying anything, buying used, or buying a totally different sort of car are all valid options. 

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 01/21/2019 at 19:01

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Never drove a Hellcat, but I did have an SRT8 Challenger for a week to bang around in. A Scat Pack Charger too. Both were fun cars.

At this point I think an attempt to shave weight will just result in a cheap feeling car and end up killing the Challenger.

That was my concern when reading about the next Challenger moving to the smaller Giorgio platform. One of the best aspects to that car is the interior room.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > For Sweden 01/21/2019 at 19:02

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Last I read was the Giorgio platform, (same?) but now it sounds like they’re going to rework the current LX.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > vondon302 01/21/2019 at 19:02

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Awesome. FCA could buy engines from BMW just like Toyota did !

ranwhenparked > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 01/21/2019 at 19:31

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Yep, apparently the Giorgio platform was too expensive and also needed too much work to handle higher torque engines. So, 3rd gen LX it is. 

ranwhenparked > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 01/21/2019 at 19:32

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Yep, the Challenger is really the only non-German full size coupe still on the market. The interior is really just like a Charger with two less doors, and the trunk is gigantic. If you can deal with the slightly less convenient rear seat access, I could see one being workable as a family sedan replacement. 

Variance > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 01/21/2019 at 20:35

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Supposedly FCA is working on a twin-turbo straight-six of their own, actually.

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/09/21/fiat-chrysler-inline-six-rumor/

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > Variance 01/21/2019 at 22:52

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I think that’s the Tornado I read about on Allpar.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > ranwhenparked 01/21/2019 at 22:57

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I go back & forth between Charger and Challenger for my next car; I like both . My parents had nothing but coupes when I was a kid, and it wasn’t a big deal to fold the seat forward to climb in back. If I go the Challenger route, my twin boys can just deal with it. It’s not like I’m jamming them in the back seat of a Mustaro..

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > ranwhenparked 01/21/2019 at 23:00

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Would be nice if they could find a few hundred lbs to come out of the LX. The base Challenger SXT is 3900lbs. Oink.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > vondon302 01/21/2019 at 23:02

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Hybrid + AWD =/= lighter.  

vondon302 > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 01/22/2019 at 05:02

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Unfortunately true.

I'd be happy if any new car goes down in weight.

Goryl392 > PS9 01/22/2019 at 13:44

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Mustang sales are stagnant, and Challenger sales are rapidly rising while Camaro sales are plummeting, so the record numbers comment is actually very accurate and according to some articles out there if it continues the way it is we should see the pony taken over by the Challenger in a year or two. At this point I don’t care,I have a ‘16 Challenger 392 Scat Pack Shaker M6 and I do not plan on trading it for something newer.